Hi. I've been thinking about the whole 2012 thing. I still don't think that the world will end. But, there could be some facts to the whole chaos thing.

I was watching Nostradamus and the Mayan predictions and came up with a logical paradox. You see, time is something made by man to keep track of history. It focuses on past, present and future. The thing about predictions is that neither of these correlate with them. Many talk about time machines and the "disruption" of time and space. But, the past has its name for a reason. What I'm saying is that the past can't be changed because it has already happened. Even if you go back in time and mess up things, you won't change anything because it was already recorded (Example: somebody from the future killed Lincoln the night John Booth was behind him. Booth was framed. Go to the future, Lincoln was murdered under mysterious circumstances. *JUST AN EXAMPLE. DON'T FREAK OUT*). The same thing can be applied for the future. You can't predict the future for it has not yet happened (So, everyone going to psychic mediums...you probably got hustled.).

Before you throw out comments, what I'm saying is that when Nostradamus made this prediction, it set a chain of events in motion. Since he said the world will end, people will probably think that it really is! Plus, all these apocalyptic documentaries and movies coming out only make people crazier! Bottom line, that date is an omen of disaster. Stock up on food and guns because, even if you don't believe in this nonsense, that doesn't mean others won't (and, judging by 2000's Y2K, population will plummet down fairly quickly).

P.S. By the way, which would you prefer: a musket or a revolver (just out of curiosity)?

God is outside his Creation - outside Time & Space. Therefore, God "sees" time & space like a film roll of a movie.
Imagine a film roll, spread out, and you are standing in front of it. You can at the same time see the first few frames (the beginning of the movie), the middle frames, and the end frames. You see them all.
Thus, you can SEE what will happen in the film at any point in time.
This is the way prophecies work - for God sees it all at once, then he sends a prophecy to a prophet living in any of these "time frames" telling him what will happen in the future.

This is by the way the notion of Qadr in Islam, which some mistakenly took to represent predestination - as in God has already "written in stone" the destiny of everyone - which of course is wrong, since people have free will. What this notion means is actually as I described it above. God KNOWS what will happen to everyone because he sees the WHOLE time frame in front of him. He sees the beginning, the middle and the end, all at once.
This also explains why in many verses in the Qur'an God talks about tyrants and evil people that they were "thrown in hell" - notice, he does not say they WILL be thrown in hell - he literally says they WERE thrown in hell, as something which already happened.

Where did you get that preposterous hypothesis?

Did Steve tell you that?

What's he got to do with it?

Ricky wrote:Hi. I've been thinking about the whole 2012 thing. I still don't think that the world will end. But, there could be some facts to the whole chaos thing.

I was watching Nostradamus and the Mayan predictions and came up with a logical paradox. You see, time is something made by man to keep track of history. It focuses on past, present and future. The thing about predictions is that neither of these correlate with them. Many talk about time machines and the "disruption" of time and space. But, the past has its name for a reason. What I'm saying is that the past can't be changed because it has already happened. Even if you go back in time and mess up things, you won't change anything because it was already recorded (Example: somebody from the future killed Lincoln the night John Booth was behind him. Booth was framed. Go to the future, Lincoln was murdered under mysterious circumstances. *JUST AN EXAMPLE. DON'T FREAK OUT*). The same thing can be applied for the future. You can't predict the future for it has not yet happened (So, everyone going to psychic mediums...you probably got hustled.).

Actually, present and future events can indeed effect the past! As bizarre as this seems, quantum mechanics says it is so. Also, the timing of your post is perfect because I've been following a debate on this very subject between physicists and other scientists in another forum. Here's a bit of their debate:

Not so terribly mysterious when you think about it like this: Give up the forward-only cause and effect assumption, and recognize that everything is unitary, including quantum measurement. Time symmetry then allows that future constraints are just as effective as past, and thus events in the future can influence how things in the past turned out in the first place. This is the only explanation I know of that deals readily with precognition as well as experimenter effects. And it's a good way to think about EPR and other quantum phenomena as well.

Response:

These are interesting thoughts, I must admit I had not given much thought to physically affecting the past. In a 4D universe where the time includes past, present and future in a single instant; altering the past is not even improbable. The only problem is that we would never know it because the altered past has already occurred and is therefore part of the history that makes up the present.

Before you throw out comments, what I'm saying is that when Nostradamus made this prediction, it set a chain of events in motion. Since he said the world will end, people will probably think that it really is! Plus, all these apocalyptic documentaries and movies coming out only make people crazier! Bottom line, that date is an omen of disaster. Stock up on food and guns because, even if you don't believe in this nonsense, that doesn't mean others won't (and, judging by 2000's Y2K, population will plummet down fairly quickly).

Are you saying it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy? If so, you may be on to something (minus the destruction of the earth). People are truly freaked out over all this 2012 nonsense, including my wife, and it is quite possible that people could begin rioting to get theirs before the drop dead date (pun intended ). And this could very well result in a chain reaction across the world.

P.S. By the way, which would you prefer: a musket or a revolver (just out of curiosity)?

A revolver works just fine for me, thank you. A musket has no rifiling in the barrel and is very inaccurate. Not to mention it would need to be reloaded (with black powder and lead balls) every time making it extremely ineffective. Did you really mean a shotgun or repeating rifle? A musket is just so..... old school.... so 1600's!

Ricky wrote:Hi. I've been thinking about the whole 2012 thing. I still don't think that the world will end. But, there could be some facts to the whole chaos thing.

I was watching Nostradamus and the Mayan predictions and came up with a logical paradox. You see, time is something made by man to keep track of history. It focuses on past, present and future. The thing about predictions is that neither of these correlate with them. Many talk about time machines and the "disruption" of time and space. But, the past has its name for a reason. What I'm saying is that the past can't be changed because it has already happened. Even if you go back in time and mess up things, you won't change anything because it was already recorded (Example: somebody from the future killed Lincoln the night John Booth was behind him. Booth was framed. Go to the future, Lincoln was murdered under mysterious circumstances. *JUST AN EXAMPLE. DON'T FREAK OUT*). The same thing can be applied for the future. You can't predict the future for it has not yet happened (So, everyone going to psychic mediums...you probably got hustled.).

Before you throw out comments, what I'm saying is that when Nostradamus made this prediction, it set a chain of events in motion. Since he said the world will end, people will probably think that it really is! Plus, all these apocalyptic documentaries and movies coming out only make people crazier! Bottom line, that date is an omen of disaster. Stock up on food and guns because, even if you don't believe in this nonsense, that doesn't mean others won't (and, judging by 2000's Y2K, population will plummet down fairly quickly).

P.S. By the way, which would you prefer: a musket or a revolver (just out of curiosity)?

Hi ricky, I suffered a group abduction and when that beam of light hit the boat we couldn't move, yet i wasn't breathing and i could still see. The outboard motor fly wheel was frozen in time as a blur and the waves inside the light were stationary. Outside the light they were still moving as is the flag on the battleship. [.See my old post .][full account in my book] These aliens froze time or if we are holograms stopped the program. When they finally departed a light shone from the craft and a black hole or opening like a tunnel appeared. It passed through this disappeared and the sky returned to normal. It was these that showed me the asteroid thing but no date. This is how it happened. I believe the past and future can be changed. It's possible we are just in a program. I don't know, i can only tell you what happened to me from a young age to the present day. But i have some proof and continue to get evidence. I also want all these objects surgically removed. See you soon mate

I agree with Ricky. Finally some people apparently bother to use their own heads, applying sustainable logic, instead of all populistic, illogical and ill-defined pseudo-scientific claims. Not to mention the nearly religious attitude around this matter (actually mentioning anyway). Please check my topic "Alternative thoughts about 2012" on the forum to get more food for thought, and please do make comments if desired.

Logic in an argument should be plausible and indisputable (usually, right?), and the person if meant to be taken seriously must vindicate here (right?), otherwise the argument or a claim digs gradually its own grave, right? This applies to most things in life.

Usually I wouldn't perhaps bother to depict the self-evident this far. But after the internet explosion, I am beginning to agree with Gauss, judging by various writings at various forums. And they really make me concerned: according to Gauss, there are (at least) as many blockheads as conscious people, but the ratio is, at the least, unfair on the internet. And wasn't the internet supposed to enlighten and educate people, equally and all that? In this light it must be mentioned, that the 2012 issue gave about 879,000,000 search results (at the time of writing this). Please combine this with the ratio previously introduced.

schumispecial wrote:I agree with Ricky.

What did Ricky say that you agree with? If you're agreeing with him regarding time, you would be mistaken, as is Ricky, and you would both be ignoring very real quantum mechanics evidence. Time is not some rigid construct that only flows in the forward direction. In fact, there is nothing in physics that claims time can't run in either direction. In other words, the arrow of time can point either way. Can the future influence the past, a past that is supposed to be long gone? According to time symmetry (T-Symmetry) the answer is an unequivocable yes! And the past can influence the future. As bizarre as it seems, time is a very fluid concept that can flow in both directions. The only reason we experience time moving forward is because of the second law of thermodynamics.

BTW, did you note Ricky's contradiction regarding time? He first claims it was created by humans to keep track of history. This implies that it has no real existence of its own, which would be correct! But he then muddies the water by referring to it as a very real thing. For example, "But, the past has its name for a reason. What I'm saying is that the past can't be changed because it has already happened." Either it's an artificial creation or it's not! You can't have it both ways. No offense Ricky!

Finally some people apparently bother to use their own heads, applying sustainable logic, instead of all populistic, illogical and ill-defined pseudo-scientific claims. Not to mention the nearly religious attitude around this matter (actually mentioning anyway). Please check my topic "Alternative thoughts about 2012" on the forum to get more food for thought, and please do make comments if desired.

You are correct, there are a number of people in this forum who do know how to use their heads and logic. But there are more who do not.

Logic in an argument should be plausible and indisputable (usually, right?), and the person if meant to be taken seriously must vindicate here (right?), otherwise the argument or a claim digs gradually its own grave, right? This applies to most things in life.

Not necessarily. Does it seem logical to you that time can flow in both directions when you only experience it in the forward direction? Does it seem logical that the future can influence the past? To most people such a notion is counterintuitive. But quantum mechanics does vindicate the claim regardless its [il]logic to most people.

personally, i think Nostradamus is a joke