Hello all,

I have been watching some serious TV programmes recently, ones based in science, life and the world in general. Once again in these programmes the argument of creation versus evolution rears it's head. As you are aware my belief leans towards evolution and the theory and science that supports it. It appears this argument will never go away as the religious sector will never accept it and equally the non religious will defend their view vigorously.

What can I say that you have'nt already read or knew yourselves. What should you believe, Darwin or Genesis. I take "believe" to mean something close, to accept without questioning or accept as an assumption, in that case one should believe neither Darwin or Genesis and look at the logic behind the position and the evidence for or against it.

What is the logic for the Judeo-christian creation myth being true, is there more reason for that particular creation myth to be true than say, the Hindu creation myth, the bhuddist, or the creation myths of the American indians. You could find literally hundreds of creation myths, just because you have been raised in the tradition of one it doesnt give that particular priority above the others. One of the many problems with what is termed the creationist position is that it takes the Judeo-Christian myth as the truth, neglecting all others. Intelligent design, (which is thinly veiled creationism) neglects many of the myths that have a god which creates the world fairly spontaneously and then sits back and lets it run, like Bhuddism or hinduism if I understand it correctly.

So how do you choose. To me there is no choice. I believe in evolution as the evidence is all around us, it is supported by scientific study and fact. There are many people trashing Darwinism, mostly religious, lets look at the basic logic of the evolutionary thesis.

It has been established that the basis for cellular functioning and structures in both individual cells and in organisms is their DNA. DNA is the master code so to speak, of course there's other stuff, RNA, various cellular structures, mitochondria... but DNA is the necessary basis. When DNA is changed the organism changes, these changes can help species adapt to an ever changing environment, these changing characteristics are then passed on to offspring, which evolve as a more highly developed version of the same species. As we know evolution is a very random process, but that is the beauty of the randomness, inherant changes allow for adaptability, to run faster, fly higher, grow hair to stay warmer or a longer beak to get into a seedpod. Evolution allows species to cope better with the environment it finds itself in, it is these inherant changes which will ultimately progress the human race, unless of course you believe we have reached the pinnacle of our evolution.

There is plenty of evidence of evolution. libraries and museums are full of it, laboratories are busy studying evolution in bacteria, in flies and other things that grow and multiply fast, we see it happening. I am not going to give references, there are truckloads of evidences, books, museums, the internet. The choices people make are individual, I am not going to try and change your belief, I am merely pointing you towards the evidence.

There are many flaws in the creation argument but in evolution where's the flaw...? you find it, I can't .

Mr Darwin.

The main problem I have with purely believing in evolution is that there are too many assumptions being made. You have to assume that when the dinosaurs were destroyed/died off that this allowed humans to develop from the remaining organisms on earth. This to me is a giant leap in the history off the evolutionary process. I believe in god from my own personal experiences. Here is a picture of the type of dog that I own. Tell me she was created by accident.

Tim wrote:The main problem I have with purely believing in evolution is that there are too many assumptions being made. You have to assume that when the dinosaurs were destroyed/died off that this allowed humans to develop from the remaining organisms on earth. This to me is a giant leap in the history off the evolutionary process. I believe in god from my own personal experiences. Here is a picture of the type of dog that I own. Tell me she was created by accident.

Hi Tim,

Thank you for your comments. What you have to understand is that humans did'nt just evolve from the debris of the great extinction which wiped out the dinosaurs. Thousands of years passed before the earliest life forms that we recognise today evolved. The processes involved were not as quick as many believe and were also subject to many different changes due to climate, environment and other defining factors. I may be telling you what you already know, but it is important that you understand the mechanics of evolution. A dinosaur did'nt become a man, man evolved via the earliest homonids and apes and dont have a single connecting relation as the human ancestors are spread world wide and are as a result of relations with different species of homonids.

Evolution is a random process which, should there have been any slight changes who is to say we would have evolved at all, it is a natural cycle but by no means accidental. Darwin's theory espouted the survival of the fittest, meaning those species that could adapt to an ever changing environment, be it climate, or escaping a predator, survived beyond those that could'nt, that is the very foundation of Darwin's theory of evolution. Your picture of the siberian husky in the snow is a fine specimen of the order canine, which includes wolves, foxes, hyenas, and all the other members of the dog family, you may be interested to know that bears are connected to the dog family.

With regard to your religious beliefs, that is your individual right to follow a religion or not and it is not my place to question that. My posting was based particularly around the fact that there are so many gods and deities that many worship which blurs the lines of there being only one god that created life on earth. That is quite a fundamental flaw.

Mr Darwin.

Mr Darwin wrote:
With regard to your religious beliefs, that is your individual right to follow a religion or not and it is not my place to question that. My posting was based particularly around the fact that there are so many gods and deities that many worship which blurs the lines of there being only one god that created life on earth. That is quite a fundamental flaw.

Mr Darwin.

Hi you guys, I dont mean to come in here .. absolutely Beautiful girl Tim.....
birds really amaze me

Mr Darwin ...
first he never said he had any religious beliefs that i see in his entire wordings...

but you made a somewhat division between you and him saying because he believes in spirit it is now religion as you know it growing up and from those around you ... just when the word God is written

God is spirit .... is love .....is law.......... not a religion ....

heres some jenny babbles,

Interpretation .... ones consciousness and what we each individually understand makes all of these different deities...

heres an example i was born in Burbank ca... than grew up in the San Fernando valley ~~> oh my god for real and for sure if you know what i mean man ........ i have a new car the latest groove happening and i never look back ~~~ what do you mean they have no flushing toilets or running water in the world ..i can't believe some still go hungry it's not possible i throw so much food away everyday ........( this is an example of a mentality)

but last weekend i got in my car and drove route 66 i went thru so many small towns winding my way through quite a few states ....
on my way i met bible religious nuts that live in fear of their god and bible and the structures of their human masters ....

i met native americans that believe their creation stories and honor father sky and mother earth .....

i saw how the first group were sheltered and molded with fears.....

the second group i saw growing corn in the middle of the red rocks with no water or abundance of anything but nature earth not a forest ......

vast extreme differences the first group had cars electricity churches running water hot water and grocery stores among schools.......

the second group had elders and the land

.................
Here's what i do not understand but i do .. you have a strong desire to seek spirit ... ghosts paranormal activity in any stage......

But where do spirits fit on Darwinism ? and Tarot reading and Quiji boards ?
dont you just die here and leave no traces ?


how does one seek what they claim does not exist ? (spirit )

the indians believe in kachinas and i see them the kachinas these are none human spirits but some take on human looks theres all kinds~~ all kinds

how does evolution say there are ghosts that are spirits left over after you evolve ?
this might help me understand

is this possibly just selected like this for your own safety ? !

i get confused reading your writing and reading this your other post you want to talk about ghosts ....i would think thats impossible in your religion under darwinism

while i am here thankyou about the tincture ... you see i trance i have been gone for a few weeks now and my lights are in my head where my crown chakra is so i get like brain surgery ... when i sleep he does it .. it causes my sinuses to move the eyes to become sore and so on .... but the fluid drains into my lungs .. which causes pneumonia ... i trance for 3 months in 08 that left me with pneumonia for 6 months so i stop it from happening best i can....

and you understand about mediums and trancing where do these fit into your ways of evolution

yep babbles have a good day all

Mr Darwin wrote:My posting was based particularly around the fact that there are so many gods and deities that many worship which blurs the lines of there being only one god that created life on earth. That is quite a fundamental flaw.

Does this mean you believe in God or just that all of the religions available make it confusing. I agree that there are many religions that make it difficult to decide which one might be the right one. I have debates with a friend of mine who is a diehard christain. He would happily tell anyone that you're going to hell if you don't believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. I believe Jesus is the son of God, but I don't believe you go to hell for not believing this to be true. When I pray, I pray to God for help and guidance. He has always helped with whatever problem I might be experiencing. I feel he is the real reason why more bad things don't happen in the world today. If you don't ask for forgiveness of your sins against others and don't ask for help from God, then he is not going to help you.

I encourage you Mr Darwin to say this prayer: "God forgive me for my sins and forgive those who have sinned against me. Please help me to follow your will for me and not my own." From here you can add on additional things like: Help me find a better job or a new girl friend who really loves me.

You might be surprised what God can do for you if you ask for help. He loves all of us!

Tim

Tim wrote:

Mr Darwin wrote:My posting was based particularly around the fact that there are so many gods and deities that many worship which blurs the lines of there being only one god that created life on earth. That is quite a fundamental flaw.

Does this mean you believe in God or just that all of the religions available make it confusing. I agree that there are many religions that make it difficult to decide which one might be the right one. I have debates with a friend of mine who is a diehard christain. He would happily tell anyone that you're going to hell if you don't believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. I believe Jesus is the son of God, but I don't believe you go to hell for not believing this to be true. When I pray, I pray to God for help and guidance. He has always helped with whatever problem I might be experiencing. I feel he is the real reason why more bad things don't happen in the world today. If you don't ask for forgiveness of your sins against others and don't ask for help from God, then he is not going to help you.

I encourage you Mr Darwin to say this prayer: "God forgive me for my sins and forgive those who have sinned against me. Please help me to follow your will for me and not my own." From here you can add on additional things like: Help me find a better job or a new girl friend who really loves me.

Sorry to take this off topic, but I have to interject here. So God will help a first world guy find a girlfriend or a job, but won't help starving African children find food? What makes your prayer for your football team to win worth more than their pleas for the most basic amenities?

jenny wrote:

Mr Darwin wrote:
With regard to your religious beliefs, that is your individual right to follow a religion or not and it is not my place to question that. My posting was based particularly around the fact that there are so many gods and deities that many worship which blurs the lines of there being only one god that created life on earth. That is quite a fundamental flaw.

Mr Darwin.

Hi you guys, I dont mean to come in here .. absolutely Beautiful girl Tim.....
birds really amaze me

Mr Darwin ...
first he never said he had any religious beliefs that i see in his entire wordings...

but you made a somewhat division between you and him saying because he believes in spirit it is now religion as you know it growing up and from those around you ... just when the word God is written

God is spirit .... is love .....is law.......... not a religion ....

heres some jenny babbles,

Interpretation .... ones consciousness and what we each individually understand makes all of these different deities...

heres an example i was born in Burbank ca... than grew up in the San Fernando valley ~~> oh my god for real and for sure if you know what i mean man ........ i have a new car the latest groove happening and i never look back ~~~ what do you mean they have no flushing toilets or running water in the world ..i can't believe some still go hungry it's not possible i throw so much food away everyday ........( this is an example of a mentality)

but last weekend i got in my car and drove route 66 i went thru so many small towns winding my way through quite a few states ....
on my way i met bible religious nuts that live in fear of their god and bible and the structures of their human masters ....

i met native americans that believe their creation stories and honor father sky and mother earth .....

i saw how the first group were sheltered and molded with fears.....

the second group i saw growing corn in the middle of the red rocks with no water or abundance of anything but nature earth not a forest ......

vast extreme differences the first group had cars electricity churches running water hot water and grocery stores among schools.......

the second group had elders and the land

.................
Here's what i do not understand but i do .. you have a strong desire to seek spirit ... ghosts paranormal activity in any stage......

But where do spirits fit on Darwinism ? and Tarot reading and Quiji boards ?
dont you just die here and leave no traces ?


how does one seek what they claim does not exist ? (spirit )

the indians believe in kachinas and i see them the kachinas these are none human spirits but some take on human looks theres all kinds~~ all kinds

how does evolution say there are ghosts that are spirits left over after you evolve ?
this might help me understand

is this possibly just selected like this for your own safety ? !

i get confused reading your writing and reading this your other post you want to talk about ghosts ....i would think thats impossible in your religion under darwinism

while i am here thankyou about the tincture ... you see i trance i have been gone for a few weeks now and my lights are in my head where my crown chakra is so i get like brain surgery ... when i sleep he does it .. it causes my sinuses to move the eyes to become sore and so on .... but the fluid drains into my lungs .. which causes pneumonia ... i trance for 3 months in 08 that left me with pneumonia for 6 months so i stop it from happening best i can....

and you understand about mediums and trancing where do these fit into your ways of evolution

yep babbles have a good day all

Hi Jenny,

You are fully entitled to join in and comment, this is what I and others have always maintained and asked of you. I am not questioning his belief in god, I thought I made that point clear. I understand fully why you have commented, it appears that I have contradicted myself in your eyes when I speak of ghosts and other such like paranormal phenomena. Evolution is a totally different topic than discussing ghosts and ghouls, but in some way can become connected. You ask how do these things fit in Darwinism, they dont directly, however, evolution is the starting point for all species, to evolve continually into the myriad of life forms that exist on this earth today. without the process of evolution I believe there would be nothing to inhabit this beautiful land. Evolution allows progression of not just individual species but helps towards the continued evolvement of all others. For example, if we look at some species of dinosaurs, they grew to tremendous sizes and they had to sustain themselves continually and they could only do this if their food source evolved with them, that has always been the most simple principle of evolution, an ongoing and cycle of events which will continue to progress all life on earth.

From evolution being the starting point of life, death becomes the end of life, or not, depending on your beliefs. If you believe that after death you become spirit, then that presents the argument for ghosts and ghouls. Darwinism is'nt a religion, not in the way you believe it is. Darwinism is the acceptance of his theory of evolution and the fact that all life forms evolved with inherant traits from other earlier animals of the same species in order to adapt to an ever changing environment or climate or physical characteristics. I have little or no knowledge of indian tribesmen or indian lore and therefore cannot question the validity of what you seem more learned than I on. It is all very interesting and I am not above being further educated on such things.

I trust you are feeling much better and I hope you do offer something regarding the ghosts and such like, as it may go some way to my understanding of the spirit world.

Thank you,

Mr Darwin.

Tim wrote:

Mr Darwin wrote:My posting was based particularly around the fact that there are so many gods and deities that many worship which blurs the lines of there being only one god that created life on earth. That is quite a fundamental flaw.

Does this mean you believe in God or just that all of the religions available make it confusing. I agree that there are many religions that make it difficult to decide which one might be the right one. I have debates with a friend of mine who is a diehard christain. He would happily tell anyone that you're going to hell if you don't believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. I believe Jesus is the son of God, but I don't believe you go to hell for not believing this to be true. When I pray, I pray to God for help and guidance. He has always helped with whatever problem I might be experiencing. I feel he is the real reason why more bad things don't happen in the world today. If you don't ask for forgiveness of your sins against others and don't ask for help from God, then he is not going to help you.

I encourage you Mr Darwin to say this prayer: "God forgive me for my sins and forgive those who have sinned against me. Please help me to follow your will for me and not my own." From here you can add on additional things like: Help me find a better job or a new girl friend who really loves me.

You might be surprised what God can do for you if you ask for help. He loves all of us!

Tim

Hi Tim,

I am reluctant to accept the existance of a god for the very reason you state in your first sentence. Not that it is confusing, no, more because every culture has their own god and so undermines the power and validity of all the other gods. added to this the differing religions all believe their god is the all powerful all seeing god. I fully respect your right to believe in god or whatever you choose to believe in, but for me, religion and god hold no sway in how I live and conduct my life. I know right from wrong, I treat others with respect and can accept others for who they are, race, religion, colour creed, etc... I have done all this without any intervention from god. Will I be judged for my stance when i die, I dont think so. All this talk of condemnation and sent to hell for not worshipping is at best puerile.

I believe when you pray you believe in the power of the prayer, not that some divine being will interject and alter the outcome of some situation or other. You have a headache, you take a pill for the headache, the headache goes. Is that because the pill has such properties which cure the headache or is it merely your belief that the pill will rid you of the headache that does the trick, and therein is my point, it is the belief one has in something which determines the outcome. Faith is only a particular belief you have in something, a quiet acceptance of that, an unquestionable acceptance. You believe, you just do, no questions asked. That seems to be the attitude of many who follow religion, god or the bible. You dont ask questions, you just accept and believe. So when I talk about evolution being the defining source of our origins, why do you and others question me, particularly when evidence is everywhere. Why dont you just accept that.

If I was to recite your simple prayer I certainly would'nt use it for my own gain. Unbeliever hit it on the head when he commented about starving children and their need for the most basic right of all living things..... food. I think your god has taken his eye off the ball so to speak if he is more prepared to grant the most ridiculous wishes and not help the most needy in the world. as for forgiveness of sins, I am not a sinner and therefore cannot ask for forgiveness of nothing. No doubt you will ascertain in some way I am a sinner for dismissing god in some way, but it is all a huge guilt trip concocted by the church and other religious faiths to do their bidding and take away the fundamental right of choice.

Mr Darwin.

I surely didn't want to go there ... Shows we all have our own God for our own needs.
The other mid perception is his love to all is not given equally
For example the ones that have no compassion they are incapable of it they are holographic for his children's lessons

I myself have never prayed nor asked for anything and all around me on the net pray . Perhaps it's a pride issue
On my phone sorry for the mess

Jenn

Tim wrote:The main problem I have with purely believing in evolution is that there are too many assumptions being made. You have to assume that when the dinosaurs were destroyed/died off that this allowed humans to develop from the remaining organisms on earth. This to me is a giant leap in the history off the evolutionary process.

It's really not that large of a leap! After the dinosaurs went extinct the mammals that lived underground were able to survive the asteroid impact that wiped them out, thus was born the age of the mammals. Over the course of millions of years they evolved into all the different species we know today. The fossil and genetic evidence bears this out.

I believe in god from my own personal experiences.

As do I.

Here is a picture of the type of dog that I own. Tell me she was created by accident.

No, she wasn't created by accident, but she did evolve. Here's the deal about evolution, and not just the evolution of life but the entire universe, if created (which I believe it was....through science), then it was created to evolve in accordance within very specific laws. Whether or not life as we understand it was written into these laws is debatable. But suffice to say that evolution does indeed occur and the evidence is literally all around us. To believe a God would create an entire universe as is, life and all, while giving it the appearance of age, literally billions of years old, is to believe in a god of deception. The fact that our universe is indeed governed by the physical laws tells me that God created through what we call science and the science does not lie. Neither does God.